You are not logged in.
Those of us collecting coins know that the value of any coin depends on various factors, one of them being the condition of that particular coin. <BR> <BR>Those most valued are in a "mint" condition. <BR> <BR>But there are all intermediate forms from mint to severely damaged coins. <BR> <BR> <BR>But there are other items, valued by many, which are either - or. <BR> <BR>Like virginity. Some have stated that it is overvalued. Maybe, maybe not. <BR> <BR>But sexually there hardly is a condition which could be called "almost virginal". <BR> <BR>A lady either is virgin or is not. The same applies to young men, too. <BR> <BR> <BR>And that is applicable to honesty, too. <BR> <BR>A person either is honest or is not. <BR> <BR> <BR>One of my problems with SDA denomination in general and particularly EGW and White Estate is the fact that they have been less than honest. <BR> <BR>And if one cannot completely trust a denomination and its employees, there is no limit to suspicions. <BR> <BR>I for example find it quite possible that even Tom Norris has not seen all what could be seen in the vaults of the Estate. <BR> <BR>I mean those manuscripts and transcripts, which are hidden or later on fabricated in a state of emergency. <BR> <BR>There is a saying "An emergency will find ways out", at least in Finnish. <BR> <BR> <BR>So, <BR> <BR>let us imagine that a representative of the Estate would sometimes in future tell of a sensational discovery, a thus far unknown letter written in EGW's own hand, <BR> <BR>a letter stating that God had revealed her that there will - sometimes after her death - come a time, when the real state of things will be told to the SDAs, <BR> <BR>namely that the Earth is immensely older than 6000 years, and the creation of man happened over 100.000 years ago. <BR> <BR>The reasons for hiding this truth were equally important than hiding the fact in early 1840's that actually Jesus will not come to Earth in 1844. <BR> <BR>After this kind of revelation, <BR> <BR>IMO many on keen supporters of a short chronology would very soon to understand, what the supporters of the ancient age of earth have been trying to tell. <BR> <BR> <BR>Consequently, if you think over what I just wrote, one's view on physical realities - at least of SDA's - is not dependent on science or facts, but it is hinged on SOP.
Offline
...as is everything else.
Offline
There is no faith stronger than for those who fervently, desperately have the need to believe. <BR> <BR>For those, losing their faith is akin to suicide, so they cling to tales they have been told, refusing to see or admit that possibly, just possibly, much was woven of whole cloth. Worse yet, that the emperor has no clothes at all!
Offline
if "<font color="0000ff">the emperor has no clothes </font> <BR> <BR>and if time is short as we are told <BR>maybe its just time to <BR><img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/messages/6/231.jpg" alt=""> <BR> <BR>gggggggggg
If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?
Offline
As Walter Rae said, "Supersalesmen of the Supernatural." <BR> <BR>When EGW said pork was OK, SDAs ate pork, Bible or no Bible. <BR> <BR>When she declared it anathema, no more pork for SDAs. <BR> <BR>Then butter was OK...not OK...OK...not OK...and presumably SDAs put in on and took it off their tables like the credulous people they are. <BR> <BR>The Door was Shut...The Door was Open...The Door was Shut...The Door was Open. <BR> <BR>Well, you get the picture. <BR> <BR>If you question, you are committing the sin of Korah. <BR> <BR>When do SDAs ever question the White Estate? <BR> <BR>Never? <BR> <BR>Too sad.
Offline
Maggie, <BR> <BR>in order to maintain one's sanity, <BR> <BR>great inventions have been made re: commandments and prohibitions decreed by Ellen. <BR> <BR>On butter: <BR> <BR>buttered slice of bread has - as eveyone knows - two sides: upside and downside. <BR> <BR>When the butter was on the dowside, it was not so harmful as on the upside, I suppose tongue in the cheek. <BR> <BR>And when I came to Pori, my current abode, some pillars of the local church kind of told me that meat actually was not so harmful, if it was taken from a young animal. <BR> <BR>So, when they invited me and my wife to a dinner, they underlined the fact that the meat served was "veal, as you know ...". <BR> <BR>As they could not serve coffee (which they drank when no visitors were nearby) or tea, they served what here was called Massai-tea. <BR> <BR>Actually it could contain any poison anyone could imagine, but at least it was not immediately lethal. But great care was taken in order not to know what it consisted of. <BR> <BR> <BR>Pauli
Offline
<font color="0000ff">...in order to maintain one's sanity, great inventions have been made....</font> <BR> <BR>Yes, and what a sad and prostituted use of the creativity which is our birthright those grotesque contraptions are. <BR> <BR>And what a sad reflection that we have to lie to ourselves in order to save our own sanity because of our addiction to Ellen White.
Offline
SDAs <a href="http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/19/messages/73.html" target="_blank">know what side their bread is buttered on</a>...the EGW side, of course.
Offline
Deceiving others is always wrong; self-deception eventually destroys one's reason and sanity.
Offline
IMO, SDAs were susceptible to David Koresh because they were already conditioned by having their minds messed with. <BR> <BR>I wasn't susceptible to him because I had spent years getting my mind back from Ellen White, and I saw him as more of the same. <BR> <BR>The question is, can we get our spiritual virginity back after it's been taken from us? <BR> <BR>In Pauli's case, his baptism had disturbing resonance with a rape, and many of us have been manipulated out of our mental autonomy by more sophisticated people, often at a tender age. <BR> <BR>You have my admiration for starting fresh with the Bible, Pauli, after all that's happened. <BR> <BR>Right now, I don't know what to think of the Bible.
Offline
And you're right, Elaine: <BR> <BR><font color="0000ff">...self-deception eventually destroys one's reason and sanity.</font> <BR> <BR>Can you believe that anyone would seriously entertain the idea the EGW's 'angel' would speak in quotes and/or paraphrases of earlier 19th century religious books? <BR> <BR>How do you tell SDAs that their brains have been messed with? <BR> <BR>Maybe you just let them be, eh?
Offline
Maggie, is your objective to save an institution, the SDA church, or to understand the Gospel and share it with all who will listen. <BR> <BR>This forum is one of hope for the SDA church, however, if they don't engage, they will have to take what they design themselves, IMO.
Offline
Quote: <BR> <BR>"Right now, I don't know what to think of the Bible." <BR> <BR>So wrote Maggie. <BR> <BR> <BR>The sentence could describe my situation, too. <BR> <BR>So I decided to tackle the issue. <BR> <BR>I went to a storage containg 1000+ of my books. <BR> <BR>The easiest to get a grip of was a commentary on Isaiah, nearly 1000 pages thick, written by H.C.Leupold, and I took it with me. <BR> <BR> <BR>Why just Isaiah? <BR> <BR>No particular reason, except it really was the easiest one to get my hands on, <BR> <BR>and in addition to that, 15 years ago I liked Leupold's commentary on Daniel, <BR> <BR>and I've newer done an in-depth study on Isaiah. <BR> <BR> <BR>Genesis would have been the most natural book to start with, but I know no commentary on Genesis good enough, at least good enough for me, considering my current outlook on Bible. <BR> <BR>There could be, but OTOH during the last few years I've avoided cities with vast bookshops; temptations to buy books may grow insurmountable...
Offline
Without the Bible, there is no promise of salvation recorded. It is God's Word. It shows Christ's example and His perfect life and death. Without the Bible, we would not know of this, other than John's famous "campfire stories" that would have had to come into the 21st century. Anybody for some s'mores????<img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/clipart/wink.gif" border=0> [Pauli, is s'mores an American phenomenon or do the Finns partake also??]
Offline
s'mores????
Offline
This is as good a site as any to educate you on American campfire activities: <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.geocities.com/suarezgfam/Smores.html" target=_top>http://www.geocities.com/suarezgfam/Smores.html</a> <BR> <BR><blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1><b>quote:</b></font><p>HOW GIRLS MAKE S'MORES -- <BR>(1) Place Hershey bars on graham crackers. (2) Toast marshmallows. (3) Place toasted marshmallows on Hershey bars to melt chocolate. <BR> <BR>HOW BOYS MAKE S'MORES -- <BR>(1) Eat Hershey bars. (2) Eat marshmallows. (3) Throw graham crackers at other boys<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <BR> <BR>(Message edited by Bob_2 on January 25, 2009)
Offline
O.K.
Offline
possibly derived from the comment: <BR> <BR>"Dern...those are good....can we have some more?"
If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?
Offline
Pauli, An excellent book, which I keep by my side always, is James L. Kugel's "How to Read the Bible." Written by a practicing Orthodox Jew, he explains the Jewish understanding of the Hebrew Bible and knows the traditions behind it. <BR> <BR>He readily admits that it has been told variously for centuries before finally writing it down, as that was the customary method of the Hebrew scribes. Very enlightening.
Offline
Elaine, <BR> <BR>your hint is noted. <BR> <BR>Thanks!
Offline